USA and or vs. Russia Politiikka ja hallinto

Arthur60a, it's a long dispute between slaves and the West. West would like to have Ukraine a part of the West. Russia thinks that you are going too far. And it's really so. What kind of interest West has to do in Iraq, Livia, Syria? Can you explain to me?

Excuse me, it's a long reply.

I might not know a lot of things about the war or politics but I know a bit. It's not right that Putin attacked Ukraine to have more land. They are one of the biggest countries in the world they don't need more land!

A lot of Ukraine people now have to run from their country and go to other countries like Polen and the Netherlands and everything in between.
If Ukraine wasn't attacked those people wouldn't have to run from their homes and lives.

I am not saying Russia is the bad guy or that the USA is stupid. Just saying if Putin didn't attack Ukraine for (almost) nothing this wouldn't even be a discussion!
Also the people in Russia are not responsible for Putin's choices! No need to be mean to Russian people.

Also people in different countries get different information about what's going on. No one can really know what's going on. Except maybe Putin and Solenski. Because they are in the middle of it. Yes the army's might also know what's going on but the Ukrainian army has a different opinion then the Russian army.

And yes people from different countries send weapons but that's because otherwise they definitely won't have a chance at keeping their country.

This is just an opinion like all of you have your own.

Freija_ajierf, it's a long story that started long time ago. You probably know, that Ukraine was a part of the USSR. More than that, over 50% of people in Ukraine are speaking Russian. In 1991 Ukraine become an independent Republic. As some other 15 republics. The anti Russian sentiments were nurturing in Ukraine since then all these years. More then that, in 2014 there a coup has happened. The president of Ukraine had to run to Russia. Many serviliens were killed. The new president started war with the different regions of Ukraine. New Ukrainian government said that Ukraine is going going to be a part of NATO. We have the right! So they said. They said that they are going to have an atom weapon. At the same time the civil war was going on in Ukraine. Doesn't it look scary? What the USA have said to Iran, when somebody suspected that Iran is trying to have an atom weapon? The sanctions were set on Iran. Why nobody cared about that in the case of Ukraine? So, did Russia had or didn't have the right to set a military operation? I think yes. Nobody wants to live next to crazy NAZI. And nothing of these would have ever happened if Ukraine acted responsible. More than that, these war rhetoric is artificially created by NATO countries. Why do they do it? There are egoistic interests. Russia many times tried to put down such nonsense and expansion of NATO, but who cares? They still trying to get even new members to the NATO. Looks like they want to expand eastwards forever. And somebody has to stop them. But the mean thing what they do, they do it with the help of NAZI.

I might not know a lot of things about the war or politics but I know a bit. It's not right that Putin attacked Ukraine to have more land. They are one of the biggest countries in the world they don't need more land!

A lot of Ukraine people now have to run from their country and go to other countries like Polen and the Netherlands and everything in between.
If Ukraine wasn't attacked those people wouldn't have to run from their homes and lives.

I am not saying Russia is the bad guy or that the USA is stupid. Just saying if Putin didn't attack Ukraine for (almost) nothing this wouldn't even be a discussion!
Also the people in Russia are not responsible for Putin's choices! No need to be mean to Russian people.

Also people in different countries get different information about what's going on. No one can really know what's going on. Except maybe Putin and Solenski. Because they are in the middle of it. Yes the army's might also know what's going on but the Ukrainian army has a different opinion then the Russian army.

And yes people from different countries send weapons but that's because otherwise they definitely won't have a chance at keeping their country.

This is just an opinion like all of you have your own.

Yes I think Russia made an excuse to blame Ukraine as an underdog for the USA so they could not see them as a legitimate country of their own. When they think that way they are always making small countries like Ukraine non-existant and will attack them without consequences because Russia only fears the big countries. Russia tries to break up Ukraine in to small pieces to counquer at a time like in 2014 when they stole the city of Crimea in Ukraine. Russia will pretend to play peace maker when in reality they really are the War Maker!!! 😃 Who wants Russia to get involved with the bad people in Ukraine who start rebellions with their own president to help Russia make a cookie out of Ukraine that they want? Russia likes to break Ukraine into small cookie pieces, then swallow them all for themselves!

DWeathers, big and strong countries can be stupid. It's no way to excuse them. Can you excuse USA for destroying Iraq, Syria, Livia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan etc? There are no excuse. But do the small countries have to be responsible for been smart? If I am a lilliputian, I don't want to provoke a Gulliver. If I do, what will you think of me? I think I'll be a very stupid lilliputian. Why Ukraine tried to provoke Russia? What was their reason? They wanted to be liked by USA? Smart move? No way, it was the stupidiest thing what they could do. And they did it. So, everybody is happy now? Are you happy? Ukrainians are happy? Russians are happy? West is happy? Why they did all of that?

https://youtu.be/sGBehe6o6zo

I.m russian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAPwIEWzqJE

DWeathers, big and strong countries can be stupid. It's no way to excuse them. Can you excuse USA for destroying Iraq, Syria, Livia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan etc? There are no excuse. But do the small countries have to be responsible for been smart? If I am a lilliputian, I don't want to provoke a Gulliver. If I do, what will you think of me? I think I'll be a very stupid lilliputian. Why Ukraine tried to provoke Russia? What was their reason? They wanted to be liked by USA? Smart move? No way, it was the stupidiest thing what they could do. And they did it. So, everybody is happy now? Are you happy? Ukrainians are happy? Russians are happy? West is happy? Why they did all of that?

Agreed

DWeathers, big and strong countries can be stupid. It's no way to excuse them. Can you excuse USA for destroying Iraq, Syria, Livia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan etc? There are no excuse. But do the small countries have to be responsible for been smart? If I am a lilliputian, I don't want to provoke a Gulliver. If I do, what will you think of me? I think I'll be a very stupid lilliputian. Why Ukraine tried to provoke Russia? What was their reason? They wanted to be liked by USA? Smart move? No way, it was the stupidiest thing what they could do. And they did it. So, everybody is happy now? Are you happy? Ukrainians are happy? Russians are happy? West is happy? Why they did all of that?

Agreed

Absolutely disagree.
Yes USA can make mistake but the countries you talk about were under domination of powers who do not care about the welfare of their people. Is Iraq destroyed? Certainly not. Their actual internal problems concern only them. For Afghanistan I don’t think that living conditions are better now when Americans are gone. It’s sure that USA made a mistake thinking that democracy can be installed in countries where tribal laws ruled all the life of people since centuries. For Syria it’s the actual power with the help of Russia who massacre his own people. The Yugoslavia was an artificial country where different populations were obliged to live together under a communist system. When this system felt down the old conflicts awaked at new. OTAN intervention avoided the worst.
Nobody is happy with this stupid war, not even Putin who thought that Ukraine invasion will be easy but it is certain that all the European peoples would be even more unhappy if west countries let down Ukraine and let Putin taking the power as he wants. Of course it’s a hard moment but don’t forget that Putin is the aggressor and the first responsible of all these deaths. I hope he will be punished for that.

DWeathers, big and strong countries can be stupid. It's no way to excuse them. Can you excuse USA for destroying Iraq, Syria, Livia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan etc? There are no excuse. But do the small countries have to be responsible for been smart? If I am a lilliputian, I don't want to provoke a Gulliver. If I do, what will you think of me? I think I'll be a very stupid lilliputian. Why Ukraine tried to provoke Russia? What was their reason? They wanted to be liked by USA? Smart move? No way, it was the stupidiest thing what they could do. And they did it. So, everybody is happy now? Are you happy? Ukrainians are happy? Russians are happy? West is happy? Why they did all of that?

Agreed

Absolutely disagree.
Yes USA can make mistake but the countries you talk about were under domination of powers who do not care about the welfare of their people. Is Iraq destroyed? Certainly not. Their actual internal problems concern only them. For Afghanistan I don’t think that living conditions are better now when Americans are gone. It’s sure that USA made a mistake thinking that democracy can be installed in countries where tribal laws ruled all the life of people since centuries. For Syria it’s the actual power with the help of Russia who massacre his own people. The Yugoslavia was an artificial country where different populations were obliged to live together under a communist system. When this system felt down the old conflicts awaked at new. OTAN intervention avoided the worst.
Nobody is happy with this stupid war, not even Putin who thought that Ukraine invasion will be easy but it is certain that all the European peoples would be even more unhappy if west countries let down Ukraine and let Putin taking the power as he wants. Of course it’s a hard moment but don’t forget that Putin is the aggressor and the first responsible of all these deaths. I hope he will be punished for that.

No one is happy with this stupid scheme, not even Biden, who thought invading Taiwan to protect it would be easy. Undoubtedly - all European nations will be unhappy when Biden brings the world to World War III and allows Taiwan to secede from China. Sure, it's a tough moment, but don't forget that Biden is the aggressor and the first person responsible for all these deaths in the world. I hope he will be punished for this...🙂))) ( a copy of your last post !)

anil, absolutely disagree. I agree with Igor. The USA makes anything to make a chaos in the world. Everywhere, where was the USA troops, there are disaster! Russia is helping the other countries, that's why in Africa people still remember the USSR. Why? Because the USSR really helped pour countries. The USA is looking for profit only. So, actually it's exactly opposite what you are saying anil. Ukraine will be much happier without the USA help. And I hope, Ukraine will be with Russia, not with the USA.

Is Iraq destroyed? Certainly not.

Please, Iraq is so fucked up it became a terrorist nest like Libya, Afghanistan and Syria... Their internal problems concern themselves yet come from the interference of foreign countries in their politic and the fundings of terrorists, just like many american countries and Africa countries see their government changing every now and then because of foreign interests and organized coups d'état, which is what happened in Ukraine in 2014 and which was beneficial to american and some europeans politicians/families/companies.

It’s sure that USA made a mistake thinking that democracy can be installed in countries where tribal laws ruled all the life of people since centuries.

Eurocentrism and arrogance at tis finest. USA made no mistake in trying to mess up with those countries. It didn't want to install any form of democracy that doesn't even exist in its own place, but rather was interest in natural ressources. The example with Iraq is striking for the US at that time reached a bottom in their oil production and had to find a way to keep their economic domination as well as their lifestyle.
So called tribal countries are sometimes just places in which decolonization has been very well organized to create a bomb. This was the case with the shit tier borders in middle east, or with the retrocession of Hong Kong for instance. Hence, even if they were ready for democracy or not, that wouldn't be the topic at all.

For Syria it’s the actual power with the help of Russia who massacre his own people.

Can you provide concrete evidences? Syria before foreign intervention was one of the most developed country of the region and where the religious tolerance was one of the highest; just like Iraq or Libya...

The Yugoslavia was an artificial country where different populations were obliged to live together under a communist system.

What is "artificial country" even supposed to mean? You live in France where multiple cultures have been packed together and where countless shit happened just in the metropole. Would you call it a artificial country where different people were obliged to live together under a Republican system which has genocided Vendeans and Bretons, then forbade lagnuages and cultures to be expressed for 2 centuries in order for everyone to speak French and share a core culture? Then we sure have to be bombed here by some pacifying armies.

What happened in Yugoslavia is simply that the system displeased to a certain country, and that bullshit were told in order to create a casus belli and wipe out the said country, leaving but a shithole there.

Nobody is happy with this stupid war,

Nobody except the US, the US gas companies, the US weapons companies and other rats of this kind that will economically destroy us more than they would affect Russia.

all the European peoples would be even more unhappy if west countries let down Ukraine and let Putin taking the power as he wants.

People care about what they are told to care about. If you don't tell them to care about Ukrain and Ukrainians, they wouldn't give a damn about what is happening there. Futhermore, what they are the mostinterested in is weather they'd have food in t heir plate (preferablly crappy one like Mcdo) or if they'll be able to go to vacations this year, taking a 5000$ credit for a week they'll spend swimlming in the swimmingpool of a hotel.

Of course it’s a hard moment but don’t forget that Putin is the aggressor and the first responsible of all these deaths.

Putin only does what is is contrained to do. You said it yourself, not even him is happy with the war. Unless you truly believe that he is kind of retarded and crazy, then there is no reason to think that he truly is the first responsible of these deaths. If you truly believe that he is stupid and insane, then you'd have to explain how come someone like that can lead a country like Russia for more than 20 years.

Russia is helping the other countries, that's why in Africa people still remember the USSR. Why? Because the USSR really helped pour countries.

I don't think so... Both USA and Russia are imperialist and will work for their interests. As for the USSR, I'm pretty sure that any Polish would be delighted to explain how great was USSR's help back then, to the point that their grudge is immensly more than of the West with Russia.

Russia is helping the other countries, that's why in Africa people still remember the USSR. Why? Because the USSR really helped pour countries.

I don't think so... Both USA and Russia are imperialist and will work for their interests. As for the USSR, I'm pretty sure that any Polish would be delighted to explain how great was USSR's help back then, to the point that their grudge is immensly more than of the West with Russia.

Agreed

Lianshen, it's a little exaggeration (Russia helps other countries), but compared with USA it's almost true. Even Imperial Russia didn't have policies against minorities. It's a very complicated subject. But yes, recent visit to Africa minister of foreign affairs Lavrov is an example of this. African leaders welcomed him very well. Some of these leaders studied in Moscow long time ago. And many African countries would be happy to see Russia back in Africa. It's so true, nobody can deny it. The problem is that American propaganda works very well too. And you know, all these terrible things what they say about USSR are true, but most of it is lie. Talking about Poland, again, it's historical if not hysterical case. Yes, it's like China and Taiwan. One nation, but two different states. Who made it to be like that? Of course West. Anybody can doubt it? Same thing with Poland and Russia. At some point they were adversaries, and at some points they were allies. It's an old Roman law - divide and conquer. That's what all policies about still today. And national interests too. China has own national interests too. So, it's not differ in any way from others.

At some point they were adversaries, and at some points they were allies.

I haven't a deep knwoledge in East Europe history, but rarely I've seen Poland being ally with Russia during the last centuries, be it back to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that looked more like a cake to eat for Russian and Germans couontries.

Yes, Lianshen, during the Second World War Polish troops were the allies to the Soviet army. After that it was a friendly socialist country. Until the late 1980 s. And of course, Poland at some point was a part of Russian Empire too. So, it's not so simple as many people think.